From: “Ken Smith” <>

Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian

Subject: Re: ARC and ‘faith’

> A ‘Net friend writes:

>

> >Rowland Croucher wrote:

>

> >> A ‘Net friend wrote in message

> >> .

> >>

> >> > I have never maintained the existence of God categorically. In fact

> >> > I don’t hold that position at all. One thing is certain however, my time

> >> on ARC

> >> > has done more to destroy/dispel any religious beliefs that I may have had,

> >> > above any other occurrence during my lifetime. I still believe however

> >> that ppl

> >> > in general benefit from faith.. although it’s not for everyone I guess.

> >>

> >> Peter, this is a serious statement:

>

> >Yes it is. I was never sure that I wanted to say it initially, now even more so.

> >(why is it every time I think of leaving I get caught up in something?)

>

> >> thanks for your honesty…

> >>

> >> I’ve lifted it out of the ‘Signs’ thread

>

> >Lucky I saw it then. (Is lucky the right word?)

>

> >> ‘cos it’s probably going to start a

> >> new theme…

>

> >Lucky again. 🙁

>

> >> Would you like to elaborate?

>

> >Not really, but to clarify, and since you asked.. Like many ppl of mygeneration

> >in Australia, I received a basic religious education, this being considered the

> >’right thing’. So I grew up with traditional christian belief(s) that Christ was

> >the Son of God and died to reconcile us to God, that the bible is the Word of

> >God, and so on, all the while never doubting Gods existence of course. One of

> >the characteristics of the internet is its unique ability to transcend barriers

> >that normally divide ppl.. these being race, socio-economic class, geography,

> >occupation, and so on. When I came onto the internet, I became exposed to the

> >thoughts and ideas of ppl who I would not encounter in my daily life, or if I

> >did encounter them, I would not likely have become involved with them in

> >discussions about matters that are discussed here. The only way I could foresee

> >that happening would be over drinks at a party for example. Someone who has made

> >a study of religion, or their religious beliefs, or seriously investigated them,

> >has a well considered position and a strong foundation for their faith; as

> >opposed to someone who never finds reason to question. When ppl assert such

> >things as.. Jesus never was a real person, God does not exist, Christianity is

> >not ‘true’, and so on, it sows doubt in ones mind about the fundamental aspects

> >of ones religion. Without sufficient knowledge to counteract such assertions,

> >one relies on the views expressed by those more knowledgeable and better

> >informed. However, when one sees that those very ppl who profess faith are

> >unable to agree on what to believe, then that only compounds the doubt. I see

> >the assault on my faith/religion therefore as two pronged, both from those who

> >disbelieve, have animosity, and want to tear down religion, and also from those

> >who believe, and who not only cannot agree, but even challenge aspects of

> >christian belief themselves.. like the resurrection for example. I never

> >realized that there was such diversity of beliefs, and such disharmony within

> >the Church, until I saw the confrontation and bickering that takes place here

> >among believers, since when one is outside of an institution, one remains

> >oblivious to such things. I don’t think that I will ever lose faith completely,

> >however like a woman raped, I feel that my religious innocence has been lost.

>

> Thanks very much for sharing your spiritual journey with us, Peter.

> I have challenged many other Christians to get involved with Internet

> discussions *outside* specifically Christian groups.

> I have warned them that this will pose a challenge to their faith, and

> that if they feel insecure they should talk things over with someone

> who has, to use a hackneyed phrase, “been there, done that”.

>

> Once people start to think about their faith, and whether they can

> really produce some reason for it, or whether it is just something

> they have accepted, there is always the possibility that their ideas

> will change – and even the possibility that they will be led away from

> their initial faith into something different.

>

> You say that you don’t think you will ever lose faith completely.

> This is fairly typical of many people I have talked to over the past

> 40+ years of working among scientists.  Many of these were grought up

> in a traditional religious setting, but when they started tertiary

> studies and had to think for themselves it was a shock to many of them

> how little real thought they had given to something which formed the

> basis for their lives.

>

> Some of them emerged with a much stronger faith, though they were

> (usually) much less dogmatic about it.  These are the ones who have

> gone on to be strong leaders in their churches.

>

> Others refused to face up to the challenge and emerged little changed.

> But their witness was very weak, and contributed to the poor image

> many non-Christians have of the institutional church.

>

> Some, unfortunately, were so unprepared for the challenge of a

> non-Christian culture that they turned completely away from any

> religious faith.

>

> Those of us who are in some position of responsibility within the

> various denominations represented on a.r.c owe it to future

> generations to do all we can to prepare the teenagers of today (and

> tomorrow) for the challenges they will face.  Not by simply saying

> “This is the truth, and anyone who doubts it must be inspired by

> Satan”, but by teaching them to listen to the challenge carefully, and

> then *think*, before responding.

>

> >> —

> >>

> >> Shalom!    Rowland Croucher

> >> http://jmm.aaa.net.au

>

> >–

> >rgds,

>

> >Pete.

>

> Salaam

> Ken Smith

>

>

> —

> Dr Ken Smith – Christian, husband, unpaid mathematician, skeptic, …

>    `But if there was no time before heaven and earth were created, how can

>     anyone ask what you were doing “then”?  If there was no time, there

was

>     no “then”. ‘ Augustine of Hippo, in “Confessions”