Rowland:

For example – the notion of a ‘firmament’, an errant view of the cosmos if ever there was one, eh?

Don: No, it isn’t. The meaning of the Hebrew is equivocal and there is nothing in the use of ‘raqiya’ anywhere in the Hebrew OT that demands it be understood as a solid dome. This has been read into the Hebrew. See http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i2/firmament.asp

Sean: The Bible does in fact describe a dome in the sky holding back the water, with holes through which the water can pass through as rain. Here is a site written by Pastor Brian Tamariki: http://www.howlingatthemoon.com/_NEWSTALK/000011c9.htm Here is his opening statement: ` The major bible commentaries and bible dictionaries agree that the ` Biblical conception of the universe was of a 3-tiered universe. To ` the Hebrews writing the Bible, the universe comprised: 1. A solid ` dome of Heaven above the Earth, and resting on the Earth on the ` circle’ of the horizon, 2. A flat Earth, and 3. The waters of the ` deep and Sheol below. This is sufficient to throw serious doubt on Don’s claims. The writer then demonstrates that agreement by citing the views of several Bible dictionary authorities. Here is what one of the authorities has to say: “ The firmament (Heb raqia; Lat firmamentum) serves to separate “ the waters above from the waters below (Gen 1.6-8), its primary “ function being to prevent the waters above from crashing down “ upon the earth below and flooding the world. However, small holes “ in the firmament permitted the occasional release of water in the “ form of rain (Gen 1.14-18). In Ezekiel’s chariot vision the “ firmament appears as an expanse over the heads of the creatures “ which looked like sparkling ice; above the firmament is a throne “ of sapphire. (Ezek 1.22-26).” (p461-462) “ Myers, Allen C (Ed) The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary(Grand Rapids: “ Eerdmans, 1987):

Rowland:

And note that Eerdmans is *very* ‘conservative evangelical’, not ‘liberal’…

More (which agrees with pretty standard exegesis, as I’ve understood it):

~~ The Bible presents the world as a flat disc with a solid dome over it. Every biblical representation of the earth is consistent with this model, and there is no biblical material to the contrary. Apart from the study of general revelation, there would be no reason to doubt this. If you read the biblical text apart from any modern scientific assumptions, this becomes particularly clear.

1. The Solid Dome

God created a firmament (raqia) in the midst of the waters, dividing the waters from the waters, so that there are waters above and below this raqia (Genesis 1:6). This raqia appears to be a solid object, because it is that which divides the waters above from the waters beneath. If the raqia were not there, then the waters above would come pouring down. The raqia is called “heaven” which explains why Genesis 7:11 refers to water pouring out of the windows of heaven. At the flood, God opened the windows of heaven, and the waters above came pouring down. Yet as we will see, those waters are still there, which means that the raqia still holds back those waters.

In Genesis 1:14-18, God creates lights in the raqia of the heavens, suggesting that the sun, moon and stars are fixed in the raqia. On the other hand, in Genesis 1:20, God creates birds to fly “across the face” of the raqia of the heavens. Again, the picture is entirely consistent with the idea of a solid dome. The term “al-pene” is used consistently to refer to concrete entities. Since there is no concept of outer space or atmosphere in Scripture, it would be entirely foreign to the biblical world-view to conceive of the raqia as invisible “space.” The raqia is entirely visible (that blue thing up there), and is consistently portrayed as a solid object that covers the (flat) earth.

This raqia is described in several other passages of Scripture :

Exodus 24:10-“And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the substance of heaven in its clarity.” (Literally, “as the bones of the heavens in purity.”) This suggests that Moses conceived of the raqia-named “heaven”-as a solid substance much like sapphire. And further, it is unlikely that such an analogy would develop if the people of God believed that the raqia was anything except a solid structure. (Incidentally, the LXX translated this “like the firmness of the heavens in purity”-stereoma means solid body or foundation, and can be used metaphorically to refer to something that is steadfast).

Job 37:18-“With Him, have you spread out the skies, strong as a cast metal mirror?” This is plainly demonstrates that the biblical authors thought of the skies-the heavens-as a solid object. Since the historical accounts in Genesis and Exodus provide solid ground for seeing the firmament as a solid object, these poetical references only bolster this conclusion. After all, if they conceived of the firmament as empty space, they would be unlikely to use images such as this in their poetry.

Psalm 104:2-“He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters” suggesting that the waters above the raqia are still far below God’s dwelling place.

Psalm 148:4-“Praise Him you heaven of heavens, and you waters above the heavens!” This plainly states that the waters above the heavens are still there. The flood did not exhaust them. They still give praise to the Lord.

Psalm 150:1-“Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in the firmament of his power.” A parallel here is made between the Holy place and the firmament. Each is a dome under which God rules and is worshiped. The earthly sanctuary is a picture of the whole earth-and indeed of the heavenly sanctuary.

Isaiah 40:22-“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” Here the heavens are compared to a tent or a curtain-solid objects which cover a flat surface; the term circle is never used to describe a ball or globe. Indeed it is also used in

Proverbs 8:27: “When he prepared the heavens, I was there, when He drew a circle on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above…when He marked out the foundations of the earth.”

Isaiah 44:24-“who stretches out the heavens all alone.”

Isaiah 45:12-“I-My hands-stretched out the heavens.”

Jeremiah 10:12-“And has stretched out the heavens at his discretion. When he utters His voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens.” Remember that the raqia is named “heaven.” Therefore when Isaiah and Jeremiah say that God has stretched out the heavens, they are referring to the raqia-and Jeremiah even suggests that there are waters in that raqia.

Ezekiel 1:22, 26-“The likeness of the firmament above the heads of the living creatures was like the color of an awesome crystal, stretched out over their heads…And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone.” Here, referring back to the Exodus passage, the firmament is portrayed as a canopy above the living creatures above which is set the sapphire throne. God’s throne is at the summit of the raqia. God sits enthroned in the heavens (Ps. 2:4, 8:1, 57:5, 103:19, Is 40:22, Ps 150:1., etc.), as he sits on the dome of the heavens, ruling over all he has made. So when Psalm 8 says that God’s glory is set above the heavens, it is not referring to some distant place, light-years away, but to the pinnacle of the raqia (that blue thing up there that keeps all that water from destroying us), where God’s throne is.

Zechariah 12:1-“Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Revelation 4:1-John sees a door open in the heavens, and he goes up and sees a throne. Naturally this means that he is seeing God’s throne which sits at the pinnacle of the raqia. Sure enough, he is able to look down and see the sea of glass (4:6; cf. 15:2)–which you would expect to see if there was a solid raqia above the earth. Yet he can see through the sea of glass to see all that is happening on the earth.

From these passages it is clear that the biblical authors thought of the blue dome over the earth as a solid object. This was plainly the belief and teaching of the church from Moses through the middle ages-long after the realization that the earth was not flat.

Sean:

Thanks for that. Here are more examples of the primitive world view. They are from the KJV unless otherwise indicated:

1 Sam 2:8 . . . . for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Psa 46:9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth;

Dan 4:10-11 [NRSV] Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him [Jesus] up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

I would ask Don to please suggest which mountain the writer of Matthew could have been referring to.