One netfriend wrote: Nathan, you are comparing apples and oranges.

Nathan responded:

If I was trying to compare the baptism of gentiles with the ordination of homosexuals, then you would be right, but I’m not. I’m sorry I haven’t yet managed to express this in a way that is sufficiently clear to others. The point I was trying to make is not one that relies on a comparison of the two issues. The point was one of trying to find a biblical precedent for a methodology which the church might employ in situations where the evidence of their own eyes seems to clearly indicate that God is doing something which their theological beliefs would have said that God would not permit. To use the terms of your analogy, I am not suggesting that apples and oranges are the same thing, but I am suggesting that there might be some methodological similarities in how we judge them. If we conclude that an apple tree is good on the basis of the quality of the fruit it produces, might we also be justified in using a similar methodology to determine the worth of an orange tree.

Netfriend:

Recognise that just because some of my friends have adopted a homosexual lifestyle and yet still appear to me to be gifted ministers does nothing to contradict God’s rejection of such a lifestyle. I could then endeavour to help them find forgiveness for their choice and healing from the causes of them making that choice and of the effects that choice has had on their personalitie and behaviour.

Nathan:

This seems to be precisely where we are talking past each other. You are talking about the (presumably detrimental) effects that homosexual practice has on a person’s personality and behaviour, and I’m saying that I know gay people whose personalities seem to be very healthy, whose behaviour seems to be exemplary, and whose ministries seem to be blessed. Of course maybe some people think that the homosexual activity is in itself a personality problem and a sinful behaviour, but in the context of what you are saying, that would be a cyclic argument – homosexuality must be wrong because it results in homosexuality.

We could pretend that such apparently called, gifted and blessed homosexual ministers don’t exist, or we could assume that if looked harder we would be able to see that their personalities and behaviour are a lot more damaged that they first appear, but then Peter could have concluded that when he heard the gentiles “speak with tongues and magnify God” that it was a human fraud or a satanic deception too. Again I’m only comparing the methodology, not the topic to which it is being applied. Even if there was only one apparently called, gifted and blessed homosexual minister, there would still be a challenge to answer. Can the evidence of this person be explained away, or does the existence of this person mean our theology needs to be rethought? After all, we Baptists have always held that “the Lord has yet more light and truth to break forth from his word.” Or do we secretly think that there are some areas in which our grasp of God’s light and truth are now infallible?

Peace and hope,

Nathan