Subject: Re: Advice needed.....
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:21:59 +1100
From: Rowland Croucher <>
Organization: John Mark Ministries
To: Chris Adams <>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.clergy

Hi Chris,

I wish I had the time to respond more fully, as your honest post
deserves...

I remember an amazing sermon by Dr. W E Sangster - greatest Methodist
since Wesley! - about the donkey Jesus rode on into Jerusalem...

A donkey doesn't have much 'presence' - which is why Jesus chose it
probably...

And that's why Jesus still chooses the disfigured, the odd ones, those
born out of wedlock, etc. etc...

(When resources allow, I want to get it that sermon typed up: it would
be an encouragement to a lot of people.

One more thought: in an ideal world we are born into families to learn
to be loved unconditionally, to belong unconditionally, and to learn
that our contribution to others is valued.

In a warped world these three are conditional: we love conditionally,
belong on certain conditions, and our contribution to our community is
compared favorably or unfavorably to that of others and we play
competitive over/under games...

Keep the faith! I just paused to pray for you!

Chris Adams wrote:

> Hello,
 
> I am in need of religious advice from any kind, moderate, and 
> thoughtful person who may have the patience to read the following, 
> which is painfully long.  Because my education has been completely 
> secular, I am not well versed in the language of religion or theology, 
> and I’m trying to choose my words very carefully.
> 
> In spite of my own personal experience (more about that below), and 
> contrary to everything I’ve been taught in college and by mainstream 
> (and not-so-mainstream) culture, I am now finding that for my own peace 
> of mind I need to figure out just exactly what it is that I believe in, 
> and what I need to do with it. I’ve spent my life trying to strip away 
> all my illusions, and spiritually I’m now left with very little. I would 
> like to know if there are any reasonable people anywhere in the Christian 
> church.

> (OK, Maybe the usenet is not the place to look for reasonable people.
> However, at this point I’m desperate.)
> 
> I know that I believe in God. That may sound simple-minded, but not since my
> childhood have I been able to say that without feeling like a moron or a
> hick. I also know that I believe that Jesus existed, and that his teachings
> were very beautiful and very empathic. As far as my beliefs go, that’s about
> all I can really say for sure. Church dogma and doctrine leaves me cold.
> Although I admire and respect the Bible, I don’t take all parts of it
> literally, and I don’t wish to pick it apart trying to prove or disprove
> right and wrong. Because it’s apparently very hard to grow spiritually
> without other people to share with, I sincerely wish that I could find a
> group of people who feel the same. I guess what I need is the right church.
> Before you jump to conclusions, read on……
> 
> No one exists in a vacuum. So that you will understand where I’m coming
> from, I need to shed some light on my situation. At the risk of reading like
> a personal ad, here are a few facts about me:  I’m a 29 year old man, born
> and raised in North Carolina. I’m currently living and working in my
> hometown, having moved back here after college and some time spent in
> several cities. I’m a successful professional (an architect). I’m caucasian,
> single, no children. From birth through high school I regularly attended our
> local Methodist church, which is actually more like a country club than a
> church.
> 
> Now for the hard, complicated part:  Although my family is middle class, I
> was born out of wedlock. Most people don’t realize that in a small town like
> my hometown, (and for a middle class person anywhere, generally) this is a
> very heavy cross to bear. Additionally, I am a homosexual. I came to terms
> with that fact over 12 years ago, and I have mixed feelings about it. (At
> times, it makes my personal life difficult and unrewarding. I don’t live the
> gay lifestyle, mostly because it doesn’t fit my temperament, and my personal
> and professional interests lie elsewhere. I don’t have a partner, and
> because of my geographical location and the lack of community here in my
> hometown, I probably won’t ever have one.) To me, it’s a moot point whether
> my sexual orientation is a result of nature or nurture (or lack thereof). I
> know myself and others well enough to realize that, regardless of my
> actions, I can’t change my sexual orientation any more than I can change the
> illegitimacy of my birth.
> 
> Considering these marks against me, I’ve done pretty well in life, and I’m 
> almost happy (believe it or not). However, I’m having problems understanding 
> why God caused me to come into this world with these two completely 
> unsurmountable problems, neither of which came about because of my own 
> actions. I can’t find an answer to this question. Last week I read the book 
> of Job. As most of you know better than I do, God sent Job all manners of 
> trials and tribulations to test his faith. Job kept his faith in spite of
> adversity. However, Job’s problems resulted from things that were taken
> away from him (his money, his family, his health), not from things he
> never had to begin with. In my case, I’ve never had a father, or the
> opportunity to have a wife and children. Many people are born with other
> more tragic strikes against them (usually physical disabilities), but at
> least they don’t usually provoke the response of loathing and disdane
> that my baggage seems to cause in other people.

> For many reasons, I enjoy living in my hometown, which unfortunately is in 
> the Bible belt. I’m not moving to a city, and my choices of church communties 
> here are limited. In my part of the country, the church is the main social 
> outlet, in addition to being a spiritual resource. I sincerely love to work 
> with and help other people, and, as I stated above I feel the need to figure 
> out what I believe in, and to act on it. However, I have a little too much 
> pride to attend our local churches, mostly because I don’t like feeling as 
> if I’m the token eccentric. Although I wish I could be a
> part of a church community, at this point it seems that I will probably
> have to accept life without it.
 
> Maybe I’m taking this issue too seriously, but it’s hard not to. I don’t want 
> to stop thinking, and simply warm a pew every Sunday morning. I envy people 
> who can accept words at face value, since it must make life a lot easier. 
> However, I really admire authentic and sincere people, and I try to develop 
> these traits in myself, to help temper my natural cynicism.

> What’s a person like me to do?  I am asking for advice or words of wisdom. 
> Please respond to this thread, or email me at   
> Thanks very much.