From: “Christian” <>
 
Halloween dates back to about 300 BC in what is now south Britain. The
Celtic Druids held there Pagan Holiday called the Festival of Death.
Back
during the time period pagan worship was at an all time high. The
Druids
ruled by their reign of terror. They practiced their religious worship
throughout the year, but on October 31 they had their New Year’s Eve
party.
It was called the Festival of Samhain or the Festival of Death.
According
to Pagan worship Samhain was the god of death the most powerful of gods.
1
November was counted as the Pagan New Year. With rituals including
human
sacrifices, animal sacrifices, drunken orgies, and spiritual divination,
the druids would celebrate October 31. The Druids would dress in
peculiar
robes and chant around the bon fires as they cast spells and did
sacrifices. They would carry around with them hollowed out turnips
carved
with terrible faces of the demon spirits and burn incense in them.
(Jack-O-Lanterns?) At midnight they would in a fury of madness, run
into
the surrounding towns and smash windows, burn down barns and break into
houses demanding from the people certain peculiar foods that the druids
eat. (Trick or Treat?) Those that did not supply these wierd foods they
would haul out of their houses and beat them in the streets.
In the 8th century AD the Pope attempted to draw away the peoples
attention from the Festival of Samhain by renaming 1 November as All
Saints
Day. A day to honor the saints who had died in the Lord service. This
didn’t work. It has actually caused confusion. People have actually
started to think that Halloween is a Christian Holiday and have adopted
many of the Pagan rituals. In Britain All Saints day became known as
All
Holloweds. Since the festival of death happened the day prior it became
known as All Holloweds Evening. Later “Holloweds E’en” and finally
Halloween as it is known today. This has made it possible for it to
move
into society unchallenged. Few people actually know the origin of the
Pagan cult holiday. Now adays there are actually Churches that have
Halloween Parties, completely unawares that they are honoring the Devil
in
so doing. The is as if the Christian church would begin to celebrate
Adolf
Hitlers Birthday. This Needs to stop. But it won’t until everyone
knows
where it came from.
 
 
From: Michael Smith <>
 
It’s a rare day that I come out in unqualified support of Chris, but
this is such a day.
 
Halloween is a celebration of witchcraft and of evil. Today we do it
with parties and laughter. Many don’t really have any understanding of
what it means. I discussed this recently with a friend who has not long
returned from missionary work in Tanzania. In Tanzania witchcraft is a
part of every day life. Most rural Tanzanians live on mortal fear or
witchdoctors and other spiritualists. The power they wield is real and
formidible – and it is from the devil.
 
Let me not mince words. The devil is real, and he is with us. If you
joke about his power you may one day be a victim of it.
 
I’m not saying “if you go to a halloween party you will fall under the
devil’s spell”. Of course that’s silly. However the legitimising of
halloween is one more step in paganising society and trivialising the
effect of evil. That is a big mistake.
 
Michael Smith

 
From: (Danny Yee)

Michael Smith <> wrote:
>Halloween is a celebration of witchcraft and of evil.
 
What you mean is, surely, that Halloween *was* a celebration of
witchcraft. But Christmas used to be a celebration of “witchcraft” too,
in case you weren’t aware. What matters is not the celebration *was*,
but what it *is*.
 
>Today we do it with parties and laughter.
 
Today Halloween has no connection with witchcraft, except for a small
minority who try to revive old customs. But there’s probably a small
minority who carry out witchcraft rituals on Christmas day, too…
 
>However the legitimising of
>halloween is one more step in paganising society and trivialising the
>effect of evil.
 
I really don’t see this. For one thing, I don’t see that there have
been any steps towards “paganising society”. A tiny minority may call
themselves pagans, but they have almost no influence over anything.
(You aren’t, I hope, confusing “pagan” with “secular”!) And I just
don’t
see how making faces out of pumpkins and eating sweets can be linked to
“trivialising the effect of evil”. (Your Tanzanian friends experience
is
interesting, but I can’t see that is has a lot of relevance to Australia
in 1998.)
 
Danny.
 
 
From: “Jeffrey Kemp” <>
 
> What you mean is, surely, that Halloween *was* a celebration of
> witchcraft. But Christmas used to be a celebration of “witchcraft”
too,
> in case you weren’t aware. What matters is not the celebration *was*,
> but what it *is*.
 
Many holidays have questionable origins. The distinction between
Christmas
and Halloween is made because Halloween is so focussed on the elements
of
witchcraft, whereas Christmas is focussed on the subject of Christ and
His
birth.
 
> >However the legitimising of
> >halloween is one more step in paganising society and trivialising the
> >effect of evil.
>
> I really don’t see this. For one thing, I don’t see that there have
> been any steps towards “paganising society”. A tiny minority may call
> themselves pagans, but they have almost no influence over anything.
> (You aren’t, I hope, confusing “pagan” with “secular”!) And I just
don’t
> see how making faces out of pumpkins and eating sweets can be linked
to
> “trivialising the effect of evil”. (Your Tanzanian friends experience
is
> interesting, but I can’t see that is has a lot of relevance to
Australia
> in 1998.)
 
“secular”, “pagan”, “humanism”, “atheism”, “satanism”, … … …
– all prongs of the same fork.
 
 
From: (Aaron Dodd)

Jeffrey Kemp () wrote:
 
: Many holidays have questionable origins. The distinction between
Christmas
: and Halloween is made because Halloween is so focussed on the elements
of
: witchcraft, whereas Christmas is focussed on the subject of Christ and
His
: birth.
 
Nowdays Christmas is focussed on commercialism. At least, that’s what
the
christian fundamentalist complain about every year. Are you telling me
that this isn’t true?
 
: “secular”, “pagan”, “humanism”, “atheism”, “satanism”, … … …
: – all prongs of the same fork.
 
Can anyone say “paranoid delusion”?
 
 
From: (Danny Yee)
 
>Jeffrey Kemp () wrote:
>: “secular”, “pagan”, “humanism”, “atheism”, “satanism”, … … …
>: – all prongs of the same fork.
 
Aaron Dodd <> wrote:
>Can anyone say “paranoid delusion”?
 
I don’t think it’s paranoia, just the standard Christian myopia.
Of course in any objective classification of all those terms, Satanism,
Christianity, and paganism would go in the same group (as religions),
with atheism and “secular” as outgroups, and humanism probably further
out (there have been and probably still are lots of Christian humanists,
so it’s a more inclusive category).
 
Danny.

 
From: (Ken Smith)
 
“Jeffrey Kemp” <> writes:
 
>”secular”, “pagan”, “humanism”, “atheism”, “satanism”, … … …
^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
>- all prongs of the same fork.
 
I must ask my humanist friends whether they are Satanists.
And my pagan friends whether they are atheists.
 
Perhaps we could lump all these together, and say that the whole
problem with modern society is that it is based on secular, pagan,
humanistic, atheistice, satanic evolution?
 
Ken Smith
 
 
From: “Peter B. West” <>
 
Danny Yee wrote:
>
> Michael Smith <> wrote:
> >Halloween is a celebration of witchcraft and of evil.
 
[cut]
 
> >However the legitimising of
> >halloween is one more step in paganising society and trivialising the
> >effect of evil.
 
Hear, hear!
 
> I really don’t see this. For one thing, I don’t see that there have
> been any steps towards “paganising society”. A tiny minority may call
> themselves pagans, but they have almost no influence over anything.
> (You aren’t, I hope, confusing “pagan” with “secular”!)
 
>From Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
<http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster>
“One who worships false goods; an idolater; a heathen; one who is
neither a Christian, a Mohammedan, nor a Jew.”
 
WordNet (at the same URL) gives
 
pagan adj : not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and
Islam [syn: {heathen}, {heathenish}] n : a person who does not
acknowledge your God [syn: {heathen}, {gentile}, {infidel}]
 
My Collins gives
1. A member of a group professing a polytheistic religion or any
religion other than Christianity, Judaism or Islam. 2. A person without
any religion; heathen.
 
Yours myopically,

Peter B. West
 
 
From: (Danny Yee)
 
Peter B. West <> wrote:
>From Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
><http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster>
>”One who worships false goods; an idolater; a heathen; one who is
>neither a Christian, a Mohammedan, nor a Jew.”
>
>WordNet (at the same URL) gives
>
>pagan adj : not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and
>Islam [syn: {heathen}, {heathenish}] n : a person who does not
>acknowledge your God [syn: {heathen}, {gentile}, {infidel}]
>
>My Collins gives
>1. A member of a group professing a polytheistic religion or any
>religion other than Christianity, Judaism or Islam. 2. A person without
>any religion; heathen.
 
If you use such definitions, they just reinforce my point — yes,
Halloween is “pagan” – but so is every other holiday in the calendar
(with the possible exception of Easter).
 
But the fact is that these definitions are seriously out of date.
What was the last time you saw a (mainstream) newspaper using the term
pagan as broadly as these definitions suggest? What was the last time
you saw the term used of a Hindu, a Buddhist, or an agnostic? It seems
to me that the term pagan is now, at least in general use, restricted to
small groups that have tried to revive classical (Greek+Roman) religion,
or which look to classical religion for inspiration. (And of course it
is still used to refer, historically, to such religions.)
 
Danny.
 
 
From: Michael Smith <>
 
Danny Yee wrote:
>
> Michael Smith <> wrote:
> >Halloween is a celebration of witchcraft and of evil.
>
> What you mean is, surely, that Halloween *was* a celebration of
> witchcraft. But Christmas used to be a celebration of “witchcraft”
too,
> in case you weren’t aware. What matters is not the celebration *was*,
> but what it *is*.
 
At Christmas my family read the bible, sing hymns and the kids sing
“Happy Birthday to Jesus”. We also exchange gifts and eat turkey, but
we try to keep the focus firmly on a celebration of the birth of Jesus.
 
At Halloween parties people dress as witches and monsters and try to
scare each other.
 
The difference is quite tangible.
 
 
> >However the legitimising of
> >halloween is one more step in paganising society and trivialising the
> >effect of evil.
>
> I really don’t see this. For one thing, I don’t see that there have
> been any steps towards “paganising society”. A tiny minority may call
> themselves pagans, but they have almost no influence over anything.
> (You aren’t, I hope, confusing “pagan” with “secular”!) And I just
don’t
> see how making faces out of pumpkins and eating sweets can be linked
to
> “trivialising the effect of evil”.
 
Well, it seems pretty obvious to me. If you can’t see it, then I
probably won’t convince you. And I’m not confusing secular and pagan.
The commercialisation of Christmas is more about secularism, but
Halloween is definitely paganism.
 
> (Your Tanzanian friends experience is interesting, but I can’t see
> that is has a lot of relevance to Australia in 1998.)
 
It’s relevant to any Australian who doesn’t believe that witchcraft has
any real power today. He’s seen and felt it.
 
BTW, he’s not a Tanzanian – he’s an Aussie who lived and worked in rural
Tanzania for many years (around 10 I think).

Michael Smith