Les Brown wrote:

>

> “Rowland C. Croucher” <> wrote in aus.religion:

> >Les Brown wrote:

> >>

> >> “Rowland C. Croucher” <> wrote in aus.religion:

> >>

> >> >Jews Respond in Argentina

> >> >

> >> >More than 1,000 people, including many Jews, accepted Yeshua as their

> >> >messiah during an evangelistic festival in Argentina this month. A 52-

> >> >member team from the United States and Britain conducted street

> >> >evangelism, performed Jewish music and dance, and held a celebration

> >> >of Israel’s Jubilee.

> >> >

> >> Interesting Rowland, but is this a good thing in your opinion or not?

> >

> >In principle, yes. Provided the ‘evangelization’ was done without

> >insensitive proselytizing…

>

> What do you call “insensitive proselytizing”? Is it where the

> potential convert finds the “converter” or where the evangeliser

> “compels” the potential convert?

Such ‘compulsion’ I would find repulsive/stupid/unChristian/

counterproductive – and a few other adjectives…

>

> The methods Christians use to convert Jews range from outright bribery

> to blatant bible mis-translations. A Jew who knows his bible as taught

> by an Orthodox Rabbi would be very hard to convert. Most likely some

> other factor is at play, such as social ambition or feelings of

> insecurity due to living in an anti-semitic Christian society.
I’d go along with that: similar to conversions from anything to

something else. There’s quite a literature on the psychology of

‘attitude change’ (I seem to recall doing a Masters’ in this field at

the University of Sydney back a while)…

>

> One thing I know for certain Rowland, we get a lot of Christian

> converts to Judaism because they know their bible and recognised its

> plain truth and felt that Judaism was “right” for them. We did not

> actively seek them, or bribe them or compel them. Jewish converts to

> Christianity are, almost without exception, already weak in their

> Jewish faith.
It’s always surprised me that Judaism is not more of a missionary

religion. For a couple of reasons: your Scriptures seem to advocate this

(jJonah comes to mind) and, yes, you have a lot to offer. For some of my

Jewish friends to be aggressive in business but not in propagation of

their faith is a bit of a mystery to me…

>

> You get the weak of our flock, we get the strongest of yours. Jacob

> and Laban.
I’d be interested to have this generalization backed up with a few

names. Let me name one the other way – Rabbi Harold Valins. You’ve

probably heard that this rabbi from Melbourne has ‘converted’ to

following Yeshua. Any comments on his story?
And any comments on the current best-seller ‘The Color of Water’ where a

Jewish rabbi lost his integrity and his children from the faith of

Judaism?

>

> What puzzles me is why any Jew would bother to join a religion that is

> loosing its adherents so alarmingly.
And yet my Jewish friends mourn the loss of many of their young people

to intermarriages etc. But I think your home-based religious rites, and

especially the bar-mitzvah (and whatever it’s called for girls) are

marvelous reinforcements of the faith for Jewish children. I’m

constantly telling Christians to make ‘confirmation’ into something as

meaningful as the bar-mitzvah…

>

> What would BOG say of all these Jews who convert to Christianity?

> Would he think them wise and intelligent? Hardly.

> >>

> >> What do you think of the possibility of Christianity becoming more

> >> Jewish?

> >

> >There are many ways in which Christianity could be enriched by Judaism:

> >the non-negotiable aspect of Christianity is allegience to Jesus as

> >Messiah and Lord and God…

> >>

> Very few Jews who convert to Christianity would truly ever believe

> that Jesus is god, it’s just too pagan for them. Even quite a few

> Christians would probably not meet up to your “non-negotiable”

> definition Rowland.
On the contrary, Les, and you’ll have to take my word for this: about

98%+ of new converts to Christianity would affirm some idea of the deity

of Christ.

>

> Look Rowland, let’s face it mate, Christian evangelisim amongst Jews

> is just one form of anti-semitism. If you are opposed to the Jewish

> faith as evidenced by trying to convert a Jew, then you are opposed to

> them physically as well as spiritually. It may not kill them

> physically, but it destroys their soul and their part in G-d’s

> universe. They have cut themselves off and are no longer related or a

> part of their people and their heritage, they have “died” for all

> intents and purposes and these “Christians” have killed them.
‘Opposition’ to another faith and attempts to convert from it are not

necessarily concomitant…

>

> These evangelists are a curse on your faith. They give no credit to

> Christianity and in fact make it look incredibly shallow when there

> are so many of your people in desperate need of spiritual assistance,

> yet you waste your money and resources and risk gaining and

> reinforcing the distrust by Jews of all things Christian that has

> existed for the last 2000 years. That’s why we Jews do not actively

> seek converts – because we are “compelled” to look after our own first

> and foremost.

>

> No doubt, the Redeemer of Israel will avenge Himself upon those who

> seek to destroy us. May it be done soon, and may you see it.
Is that a threat? I thought you were becoming more irenic Les…

>

> Les Brown
— 
Shalom!  Rowland Croucher                     ()
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