Subject: Re: The Potter & His Pots
Date: 18 Aug 1999 15:07:28 GMT
From: Chris Ho-Stuart <>
Organization: Queensland University of Technology, Australia
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.presbyterian,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,aus.religion.christian,alt.atheism
Followup-To: alt.bible,alt.christnet.theology,alt.atheism

[ Warning: followup pruned to alt.bible,alt.christnet.theology,alt.atheism ]

In aus.religion.christian Gardiner <>
wrote:
> Chris Ho-Stuart wrote:
> > 
> > In aus.religion.christian Gardiner <>
wrote:
> > > Randy Coughlan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gardiner wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Of course it does; just as it did to the 
> > > > > "atheist" philosopher,
> > > > > Spinoza; just as it did to Einstein, just as it did to
> > > > > Leibniz,
> > > > > who had one of the highest I.Q.'s in history.
> > > >
> > > > Tell us more about what these dudes thought about predestination.
> > >
> > > Each believed that all of history was predestined by God, and
> > > that the idea of free will is illusory.
> > 
> > Einstein did not believe in a personal God at all. He was (usually)
> > gentle in his expression of this conviction; although as a cautionary
> > note we should note his anger at being consistently misrepresented.
>
> I never said that Einstein believed in a "personal" God. I said "he
> believed
> that all of history was predestined by God." There is little controversy that
> Einstein accepted the notion of a "God." He is famed to have said
> "my God is
> the God of Spinoza." Of course, if you know anything about Spinoza, you know
> that he was a determinist of the strongest sort...no free will whatsoever; and
> the reason why is because God is perfectly happy with the way he has created
> history from beginning to end.

No problem. I'm just warning folks that Einstein did not in fact
believe in a God in the sense that theists do. He uses the word
"God" as a kind of metaphor for the laws of the universe, which,
as you rightly point out, he considered to be deterministic.

I agree that Einstein accepted a form of predestination, but this
was certainly nor linked to a notion of God having anything to
do with theistic beliefs.

Einstein usually called himself agnostic, and did once refer to
himself as an atheist -- though on the other hand he also had hard
words for atheism.

Ironically, the matter of determinism is one area in which the great
man was wrong! However, the kind of non-determinism which Einstein
incorrectly rejected is no help for the notion of free-will. I
suspect it is fair to say that Einstein considered free will an
illusion, and he is not refuted simply by the existence of quantum
mechanical non-determinism. Howver, I have no direct quotes on the
matter available.

Cheers -- Chris