“Rowland Croucher” wrote:

Back to the OT – with or without the apocryphal writings: what kind of strength would you give to Jesus’ imprimatur of the law and the prophets? What does that mean for our reading of them today?

Mark responded:

Jesus believed that David wrote all the psalms. He also believed in a literal Adam and Eve and that Moses wrote all the Pentateuch …including the part reporting Moses’ death. Jesus was wrong. He believed the current thinking of his day. If he was God he would have known better. (Does the God aspect of Jesus include knowledge? If not WHAT does it include?)

I responded:

I’ll pick up just one of Mark’s points: how much did Jesus know?

I think it’s fair to say most ‘progressive evangelical’-to-liberal scholars believe in some sort of ‘developing messianic consciousness’ in terms of Jesus’ self-understanding, and understanding of his mission, and his relationship to God. Jesus did not know, as a baby, that the earth is – roughly – spherical!

(Heard a sermon recently recently where the preacher speculated on what Jesus-knew-when, and what-he-could-do-when – like: could Jesus throw a perfect curve-ball when he was a kid? Never thought of that before! Told a fervent Christian recently that the only thing we know about the Messiah was that he wasn’t good-looking: she was astounded!).

Anyway back to the question. Another notion which scholars have played around with is (various forms of) kenotic theory. “Kenosis” is derived from the Greek word “kenoo” which means “to empty.” It is used in Phil. 2:7. The text of Phil. 2:5-8 is worth recording here. “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross,” (Phil. 2:5-8).

The kenosis theory states that Jesus gave up some of his divine attributes while he was a man here on earth. These attributes were omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. This view was first introduced in the late 1800s in Germany with Gottfried Thomasius (1802-75), a Lutheran theologian.

Take Mark 13:32 for example. In it, Jesus said, “But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” If Jesus knew all things, as is implied in his divine nature, then why did he not know the day or hour of his own return? The usual answer is that Jesus cooperated with the limitations of humanity and voluntarily did not exercise his attribute of omniscience.

The classical doctrine is the Hypostatic Union, that Jesus is both fully God and fully man (Col. 2:9) and did not give up any divine attributes while as a man on earth.

Found this somewhere (I don’t know whether the table will appear correctly or not, but you’ll get the idea):

GOD MAN He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17). He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8) He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5). He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)

He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17). He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1). He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52). He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8). All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

I’ll leave it there for now.

What’s happened with recent liberal/radical theological thinking is that church history is turned on its head. You can disagree with Paul about Jesus’ divinity (whatever that means) if you like – but why did the church include Paul in the canon?

Gotta go to bed… G’night,,,

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Shalom!

Rowland Croucher